Sunday, October 2, 2011

Stop Slut Shaming ElevatorGuy

People are still slut shaming EGuy at various feminist oriented blogs. So let's try a little experiment, shall we? Let's reverse the sexes of the two people in the elevator.

Slut shaming is shaming someone (usually women) for being sexual, or having more partners than the norm, or doing it while not married/committed, or having a type of sex that someone disapproves of, etc. Pretty much any insult or condescension towards someone based on not approving of whatever non-harmful type of sex they have had or hope to have.

With EGuy, he was shamed for making an offer of coffee that he most likely hoped would end up with having sex. Rebecca Watson, and people who agree with her, have slut shamed this poor guy ceaselessly ever since ElevatorGate. It's starting to piss me off due to the hypocrisy as is shown when we reverse the sexes in the same situation:

Picture a Mr. Watson being offered sex by ElevatorWoman. Now picture Mr.Watson making a video telling women not to do that, that they are somehow bad for offering/hoping for some sex with him. Bad for even thinking about sex (that thought crime that Watson calls 'sexualizing' and 'objectifying' when men do it). Wouldn’t we all be telling him to leave her alone and stop slut shaming her? All she did was ask and then politely accept his no. She didn’t push herself on him, just accepted the no.

Why is she bad? Is it unseemly or sinful (thought crimes!) for a woman to be sexual with a stranger? She must be a dirty slut, right? Nope. She’s just been slut shamed by Mr.Watson. She did nothing wrong, but he thinks badly of her for even hoping for sex with him under those circumstances (4am elevator).

If you can see how EWoman should not be slut shamed, can you see how that also applies to EGuy as well? If not, please tell me why it's different. As far as I can see it's a situation of what's good for the goose is good for the gander. And don't bother saying "well she was scared of rape but he wouldn't have been". I'm not buying that. There was nothing to indicate a rape threat in either the actual EG situation or my hypothetical reversed sexes one.

23 comments:

  1. Excellent blog, and how I have always seen this issue, which is why rwatson was a fool in this instance.

    -LegendaryAsshole

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  2. I see Watson is still trying to milk this Lulz Cow bawing about getting nasty grams. She should work in the mail room of any media outlet/celebrity and see that kind of bullshit is par for the course. Even a Z list celebrity gets 10x the crap that Watson does on any particular day. If you get on stage in the spotlight, expect catcalls and the occasional rotten tomato tossed your way

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  3. Anonymous: Thanks. EG has been picked on in an especially mean manner that they'd freak out at if it had been EWoman instead.

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  4. TheEditor: She's the current Queen of Contrived Victimhood at the moment. She's either milking it and marketing it, or if she actually believes the shit she says, in dire need of therapy.

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  5. She's got an Ophelia complex, it's named after a character in Hamlet, who in the early part of the play is a minor character who is constantly seeking attention by pestering the main players with her trivial concerns. Frustrated by the lack of attention she commits an act of self immolation this act briefly grants her, her desired status as the centre of attention but the drama proceeds at a pace and she's soon forgotten about. One of Shakespeare's cutting satirical insights.

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  6. Anonymous: She's probably in a post-elevatorgate anti-climax depression, having not quite convinced the world successfully of her victim status at the end of the day. I'd probably feel a little sorry for her if she hadn't actively and knowingly indulged in such an over the top 'poor me' game.

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  7. I can't feel sorry for her because she hasn't learned anything from the experience. She's locked into her child like: I'm right your wrong, mode of thought. I doubt that unless someone makes an effort to confront her conceit, a bit like Dawkins tried, she'll continue on her path of delusional self proclaimed victim-hood and never develop a personality independent of the plaudits she craves from people around her.

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  8. She'll refuse to confront that conceit unless doing so will win her 'good girl' points and applause for being 'brave' enough to make a big production of apologizing. But it would have to be something she doesn't really give a shit about and can pretend to be all serious about. I've seen her type before. :)

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  9. Would you mind if I linked to your blog on my list of former feminists who now run ex-feminist blogs?

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  10. ""well she was scared of rape but he wouldn't have been". I'm not buying that. There was nothing to indicate a rape threat in either the actual EG situation or my hypothetical reversed sexes one."

    That's why I came up with my "gay bodybuilder" analogy... because:

    -> A big, tall bodybuilder can easily overpower and rape an average skinny guy

    That still would not excuse us from treating gay men who politely ask us out as "potential rapists". In fact, that would qualify as homophobia.

    The physical and theoretical possibility of rape is no excuse to treat all gay men as potential rapists - even if they're physically bigger or taller than us.

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  11. Alek: I'd be honoured to be on your list. Thanks. :)

    The analogy is an excellent one. No matter how good though, they will stubbornly go into denial or outright lie thinking they're saving face. Fucking disgusting.

    In that vid of Watson that Justicar posted today, I'm more appalled than ever due to her admitting that: no, she has no conscience. I don't think she was joking even though she loosely laughed it off. She's probably a full blown sociopath.

    And how mean can one be to an assigned helper/handler. She played mind games on that poor woman for days and thinks it's funny. Making her do things that might have been embarrassing to do if that's her hometown, like buying the condoms and pregnancy test.

    I can't get over how horrible and ugly a person she is, inside and out.

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  12. Awesome :)

    I added you on top of the blogs list here:
    http://www.avoiceformen.com/womens-voice/

    "I can't get over how horrible and ugly a person she is, inside and out."

    To be fair, I give much blame to the men who surround her.

    Not to excuse her completely, as there are plenty of good women on planet earth who would never act like Watson does, no matter how much attention they get. We all know people who despite fame or riches remain humble people.

    Partial blame for her narcissism lays in all the men who have been giving her a ton of attention and special privileges at atheist communities around the world.

    Sure, it takes a sociopathic core to get to Watson's level of hubris, but it doesn't help that she has been treated like a rockstar in so many atheist communities that she started to believe her own story.

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  13. Thanks, I just came back here to ask you for the url, and I see you've already posted it. I'm hoping to find some new blogs to follow of fellow ex-radfems.

    She played a part in encouraging her mindless fanbase, I suspect. She majored in Communications which is perfect for anyone wanting to manipulate and communicate things that are not quite what they seem. And she used to be a stage magician / juggler, so she gets off on fooling people, I think.

    I'm not even sure anymore that she even believes herself and that she's not fully into an acted role. It's what she said about not having a conscience that's pushed me to this much disbelief, combined with some of her obvious lies like the facial recognition one. Blows my mind! :)

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  14. Scented Nectar, I just found your blog by way of Alek's site.

    The original "Elevatorgate" kerfuffle was what originally got me interested in hearing the voices of feminist women and seeing what they had to say. I was concerned that my atheism movement really might be sexist and repeatedly causing harm to women who want to participate.

    But after doing a great deal of reading - I realized that just because someone is a "feminist" it doesn't mean they speak for women or what women (as a group) are experiencing. Unfortunately, not all feminists realize that they don't speak for all women. Which is what makes finding blogs like yours so crucial to gender issues.

    The reality of the Elevatorgate situation is finally becoming clearer to me - I think that it is more likely than not that Rebecca Watson fudged the truth a little when telling her little anectdote in an effort to "rally the troops" of feminism within the atheist movement.

    With the photographs, Rebecca's sudden medical condition and the PLEAS for "Elevator Guy" to stand up and tell the story from his side of things, it's becoming more likely that EG wasn't an actual guy and was either a fabrication or a mish-mash of men that RW has met in her life or at these events.

    If this is, in fact, a fabrication, then it deeply troubles me that I am seeing a trend in feminism to distort the truth as long as it results in more attention being paid to women's issues (which - I want to clarify, I don't think women have it easy in the world, but lying about how bad you have it in an effort to curry favor is wrong.)

    Anyway, this has gotten to be far too long of a comment - but I just want to encourage you, Scented Nectar, to keep writing because we need women's voices like yourself. Please keep it up.

    I'm adding you to my RSS feed.

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  15. Thanks. :) It's not really a trend. The radical feminists have been this way for decades, giving a bad name to any feminist who is fact-based and egalitarian. The radfems are ideological with faith-based beliefs that things like thought crimes exist. Sexualizing and objectifying are Watson's current ones, along with a trait known as 'creepy' which assumes the guy is thinking harmful/preditorial thoughts. Also just in general with vague claims of 'patriarchy' and 'rape culture'.

    I think they are a dying breed though. More and more, people are confronting the bullshit parts of their claims (which is most of it). I'm optimistic that they are memetically being selected against, and that true equality between the sexes is growing.

    Don't worry about long comments. Those are totally fine. :)

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  16. "Communications which is perfect for anyone wanting to manipulate and communicate things that are not quite what they seem"

    Funny, most saw right through it when Mooney/Kirshenbaum/Nisbet tried that schtick, now they want to make another advocate of the same a litmus test for the sceptical community?

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  17. Windy: I'm afraid I don't get the reference re Mooney and those other two. Are they Communications majors too?

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  18. Science journalists and a communications prof. They started pushing "Framing Science" and "Communicating Science" a few years back, about how scientists should pander to the sensitivities of the public and be quiet about unpopular stuff like atheism. The whole 'the movement has an image problem and if you don't agree about the cause then you are part of the problem' approach has some interesting parallels to the current case.

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  19. Oh ok, those must be the accommodationalists that everyone gets mad at?

    Well, fuck them, and fuck the "atheism is rife with sexism" crowd too. They are just as accommodationalist, but for radfeminism. I have no patience for idiots who would rather suppress the truth for some greater perceived cause.

    I'm glad they've set up their own little ghetto for their blogs though. They were being a pest to all the other areas on the internet. :)

    I don't consider them to be atheist blogs anymore either. They are first and foremost radfeminist blogs. Atheism comes second there.

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  20. The Watsonistas are as interested in equity feminism as Mao Tse Tung was interested in worker's rights.
    Vis: Only as a transparently sham means to another step up the rungs of the nepotistic power-play ladder.

    Jackboot-stomping on the feeble hands of their slavishly devoted acolytes, who bear them on their unpaid for golden litter on the way up their tower of Babel, adds considerably to the jollies for these ruthless parasitic psychopaths.

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  21. Psychopaths is right on the mark. Psychopaths with an entourage of doormat-people awaiting instructions on who to hate next and how, and who to laud loudly and how. A little army of damaged retarded sycophants.

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  22. ScentedNectar, this thread is full of really good points. I had never heard the term "Ophelia Complex" before although of course we are all familiar with it from real life.

    As I said on another thread I cam hre from Feminist Critics, on AlekNovy's recommendation. A few of us commneters at FC have formed a gender issues blog, and since feminism is a men's issue we blog about that alot, and not alaways adversarialy. I am going to look in now and then because I like your way of looking at things. with your permission we will link to you too.

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  23. I'd be honoured if you linked to me.

    The funny coincidence about mentioning the Ophelia Complex, is that there really is someone named Ophelia who is part of the Elevatorgate conversations, although I think it's Watson who has the complex. :)

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