Sunday, October 16, 2011

Challenge To DawahFilms

Thunderf00t is a YouTuber who is known for his videos against islam and his promotion of Draw Mohammed Day every May 20th. DawahFilms is a YouTuber who is known for his proselytizing of islam, trying to convert people to it. Despite pretending to be some sort of friendly moderate muslim, he's a koran-thumper who recently wrote emails to a lot of Thunderf00t's coworkers trying to get him in trouble over his videos. He also endangered Thunderf00t by giving his real name and locale to an islamic group.

Many people over the years have been killed by muslim believers for the non-crime of blasphemy. Draw Mo Day was seen as such a large blasphemy that Pakistan blocked YouTube entirely over it. Obviously, Thunderf00t is probably in a large amount of danger due to this, especially with DawahFilms making sure that Thunderf00t's info got sent to an islamist group. Even if DawahFilms would never lift a finger himself to harm Thunderf00t, he has placed him right into the hands of those who would.

There are 3 groups of people who have strong opinions on this fight between Thunderf00t and DawahFilms. On the far and flakey left, are those who think we can all just be friends and be polite, which will magically cause all the islamic atrocities to end. On the far right, are some racists who hate muslims for being a darker shade of brown than the tan colour that is considered 'white'. In the middle, are people who see it as a humanist matter, the problems being in the horrific cultural/religious practices. I'm in the last group. I'm not a racist rightwinger, nor am I an idealistic do-nothing leftwinger.

Over at Thunderf00t's Blog, DawahFilms joined into the conversation and I issued him a challenge. Here it is:
DawahFilms, I have a challenge for you. People excuse you by saying you are a moderate, and not like those extremist violence condoners. So….

Are you willing to speak out against all, or even any, of the following koran ordained punishments/practices?

★ the killing of people for the nonharmful, consensual, sexual ‘crimes’ of homosexuality and/or unmarried sex?

★ the forced marriages where the female’s father decides who she must ‘marry’ (=sexual slavery if she doesn’t want to but is made to)?

★ the ‘marriages’ (=rapes) of children where vaginal intercourse can happen as young as nine?

★ the condoning of anal/oral rapes of children even younger, eg newborns?

★ the lack of equal rights that all females have according to the koran?

★ the wife beatings that the koran tells husbands to do when she continues to disobey him?

★ the killing of those who have been taught about islam if they still do not believe/practice it after learning about it?

and here’s the biggie….
★ the killing of people for blasphemy, such as that which happened to Van Geogh, and which has pushed a lot of people into hiding, eg Hirsii Ali, Rushdie?

That last one is very important. We all know that Thunderf00t has committed that non-crime bigtime with his Draw Mo Day. So big was it, that Pakistan blocked YouTube altogether.

Recently, you not only contacted Thunderf00t’s workplace, but you also sent his docs to a muslim organization. How are you going to fix it if that becomes a death fatwa now that they have his name and locale?

In advance of your answers, let me tell you that I won’t accept weaselly non-answers, gish gallups, or changes of topics.
He never answered me, so I then wrote:
Well, Dawah, are you going to answer my challenge? It’s looking like you are avoiding it so that you won’t have to admit the truth, which is that you CONDONE and SUPPORT these atrocities. Perhaps you have even COMMITTED them.

Waiting…….. Your silence is giving the impression that you’re not against any of them at all. Not the murders, rapes, pedo-rapes, slavery, etc. That’s the only reason you could have for not answering.
I want to mention, by the way, that I don’t care, who did what first, or about whose personality has been nicer during this fight. The future is what I’m concerned with. If this leads to a death fatwa on Thunderf00t, are the leftwingers still going to think DawahFilms is blameless? Will they say that Thunderf00t asked for it (‘it’ being death)?

Once a ‘blasphemer’s info is spread to islamist orgs, it then gets spread to the mullahs and imams that run them or are associated with them. The idealistic left acts as though death fatwas never get issued by these superstitious assholes and their orgs.

I suspect/hope that Thunderf00t is being protected covertly by the FBI or others. He’s a big target with Draw Mohammed Day to his name. Assholes like DawahFilms spreading around his info to islamists have endangered his life. They have a huge track record of killing those who offend them with their pretend crime called ‘blasphemy’.

In fact, the word 'dawah' means to teach us nonmuslims about islam, and according to their own bloodsoaked koran, if we don’t convert after learning about it, we are kafir and must be killed too. Does DawahFilms speak out against that one ever? You don’t even need to blaspheme to get killed for that one.

I’ll bet that DawahFilms has chickened out of my challenge to speak out against the religion’s atrocities. Let’s see. One of the questions specifically gives the situation of blasphemy such as Thunderf00t is in. Would DawahFilms speak out against what the koran says, which is to kill Thunderf00t? DawahFilms appears to have run off to avoid answering me.

Many people want to play nice with him, and it turns into a tone game. “But he’s polite, so he can’t be bad”. Yep, and if we hold hands and start singing “I’d like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony”, world peace will happen and islamists will stop killing kafirs, raping children and enslaving women.

The flakey overboard left is just as bad as the flakey overboard right who dislike them for being brown and non-xtian rather than for being harmful. The answer is in the humanist middle where cultural harm is spoken against. There is nothing wrong or racist about being against cultural/religious practices that cause harm.

If anything happens to Thunderf00t, there will be a lot of backpedalling. All of a sudden people will be saying it’s unconnected to Thunderf00t’s fights with DawahFilms, or that they knew all along that DawahFilms was up to no good but didn’t say anything for some made-up reason, or that they really meant the opposite when they earlier said such and such, etc. It’s all fun and games until someone pokes out an eye or an internal organ. And let’s not forget the inevitable victim blamers. The ones who will partly excuse the murder with “you shouldn’t have offended him, he was provoked you know”.

Some people say that they don't like Thunderf00t's personality and that DawahFilms is such a nice guy. Yet, only one of those two is promoting a book that orders that violence be done. Therefore, it is only that one (DawahFilms) who I am asking to say publicly that it’s wrong. Not in a weaselly roundabout way, but to speak out against the actual passages that order these things in the koran.

What I want to hear should start with “the koran is wrong where it says we must do this or that”, not something weaselly like “this particular person didn’t reeeaaally do that crime enough to punish her/him”. I want to hear him say the koran is actually wrong and should never be followed regarding all the atrocious punishments and practices that I listed above.

He won’t do that though, I'll bet. If he did, he’d not be allowed back into a mosque except to face his own punishment, or at minimum being called an infidel and booted out, since he lives in North America – a non-sharia part of the world where the murder punishment is more difficult to get away with.

Even saying that he himself could never bring himself to kill a gay person or doesn’t mind blasphemers, etc, isn’t enough. He condones and promotes others who DO practice the laws in the koran, so he must speak out against any and all of those atrocious punishments/practices. No weaselling or special cases used as examples. I want the real deal, which we all know he won’t give, since it would be directly saying the koran is immorally wrong in those regards.

Some people argue that it's Thunderf00t who must speak out, against some of his fans who are of the racist rightwing. He’s not under any obligation to. It’s a side issue, since Thunderf00t’s fighting something a lot bigger than the odd people here or there who say bad words or have racist thoughts in their heads. He’s fighting the actual sticks and stones, the harms of the religion itself. Also, he’s not promoting any racist groups himself, as Pat Condell is said to do with the EDL and BNP.

The biggest obligation I see in this whole thing, is on Dawahfilms. He’s the one who IS promoting mistreatment of groups of people such as all women, all non-muslims (who his koran says can be taken as slaves if not killed), etc. Even (maybe especially) his own group, his fellow muslims, who are routinely horribly mistreated by followers of that book of hatred, the koran, the book which DawahFilms thumps.

Many ex-muslims, such as Hirsii Ali and Maryam Namazie DO speak out against the racist right, but take note: they also speak out against the flakey do-nothing left who tolerate all sorts of islamic atrocities for fear of being called racist or islamaphobes. Overboard lefties, like the ones posting over at Thunderf00t's blog and videos on DawahFilms’s side commenting about petty shit like who presents a nicer tone, or who did what first, rather then the meat of the matter, which is the attempt by DawahFilms to convert and spread his theocratically institutionalized hate, something that’s a lot worse than a racist word dropped here or there by a random rightwing nutter.

I think this has everything to do with religion and cultural practices, and that DawahFilms’s politeness is merely him using tone instead of arguments. Let’s not forget that his main purpose on YT is to evangelize and convert us to a system that is the most barbaric of all the remaining theocracies. Many on the ‘left’ seem to think we can befriend him and tame his message of hateful immoral sharia-thumping, if only we join hands and sing fucking Kumbaya or something.

I hope that those who cry ‘islamophobe’ at the drop of dislike, realize that most of themselves would be among the first killed under the koran’s inhumane laws. Again, I want to point out that this is not an issue of racism, but of horrific religious/cultural practices. There is nothing wrong with being against that.

This is not someone to coddle with “ahh, let’s all be friends”. If his religion had it’s way, I’d be dead dozens of times over for my many nonharmful ‘crimes’, and so would most of you.


  1. Yeah, you'll be waiting a long time to hear from DF. Well, at least to get a responsive answer; you might 'hear' from him in some nonsensical manner.

  2. Yep, he's a bigtime avoider, and runs away from me the few times I've confronted him so far.

    There's no way he can answer these questions without either condoning the atrocities or speaking out against the koran. He knows that.

  3. Ok, first off, Dawahfilms has said that, in his ideal Muslim society, people would be fined, rather than killed for depicting Muhammad. So, we can say quite safely that he's against killing people for blaspheme.

    Secondly, its been established that someone else dropped TF's docs, and I've only heard Dawah call his first name. Can you provide a link showing Dawah doc-dropped TF?

    Thirdly, are you not going to call on Thunderf00t to clarify his "sleeping giant" comment. Many people, including me, see that as a very poorly-veiled threat of nuclear war against the Middle East. Which seriously calls into question that "only" Dawah is promoting violence.

    Also, discussing Islam as if its one thing (for that matter, discussing ANY religion as if its one thing) is actually painfully naive on your part. In fact, no two Islamic countries interpret sharia in the same way, and yet whenever we try to discuss its consentual use in private property disputes, we inevitably get lectured on its use in criminal law under theocracies such as Iran and Saudi Arabia (an utter non-sequitar).

  4. Thunderf00t has posted a video stating that Dawah Films has threatened his family. (I'm not sure why The Naked Emperor is in the video)

    Also Dawah films are targeting an actor (woman) who has starred in an anti-Islamic film. I need to find the article I read in reagrds to that, and I will post it here.

  5. Pat Condell, (check his video history), is not and never has had any links with the BNP or its bastard child the EDL.

    The only people making the accusation are far lefties like Coulghlan because that is what they do to people who dare to accuse the untouchable religion of the poor helpless oppressed brown people, if you are critical of islam you must be a racist.

    Condell was never called a racist until Coughlan started spewing his politics all over the place effectively splitting atheists in to two camps, the holier than thou appeasers and the nazis.

    If Condell is a nazi, then Tfoot is, and you are and everyone else who dares to stand up to islam.

    It is disappointing that people are still falling for these smear tactics.

  6. Watcher, 1: even if DF would personally prefer fines rather than death, is he willing to outright say that the koran or hadith or whatever is WRONG on the matter? Has he ever pleaded with other islamists to not follow what the books say clearly to do? It's a start if he'd 'prefer' it were different so that they would only have their money stolen but not killed, I suppose, but he accepts that it's not that way, and has not said the others were absolutely wrong to kill them.

    2: I don't have the link, but saw it myself and enough others did too that DF does not deny telling the islamist org what TF's docs are. No matter who did it first, DF admits that he made sure to send copies to TF's workplace AND an islamist org. They might never have seen them otherwise. Islamist orgs, and the mullahs/imams that are connected to them are where death fatwas tend to originate. There are people in hiding right now, and many many people who have been killed for much lesser 'blasphemies' than TF has done. DF put him in danger by sending his docs in a complaint to an islamist org, as well as being a total prick by trying to get him in trouble with his workplace and coworkers. Reconsider defending such a nasty person.

    3: TF's threat is nothing in comparison. He has no track record of influencing violent groups to actually carry out such a nuclear war. Koran followers however, DO have a big track record of killing for 'blasphemy', even though you say that DW would only steal his money if he had his way and not be quite as violent as to kill him.

    4: Just because the various hellholes differ somewhat in how they think they are supposed to carry out the koranic violence, they are still carrying it out. I want DF to speak out against all of it, not just with a feeble lessening of some parts, but to speak out against ALL the violence proscribed in those books. Even one piece of it is too much. Even the lessening a little of it from death to theft is too much. I want to hear him say the koran is WRONG. The koran is very clear about many punishments/practices that are NOT disputed. He's playing a weaselly game to make you think he's a nice guy. Has he ever said the koran is wrong though? No, he just argues the finer details of the atrocities it says to do.

  7. Sacha, this was one of the few times that I have no argument against PZ. He simply helped out with the video. Now, if this was on the topic of feminism, there'd be something like a 75% chance that I'd be in disagreement with him. Well, maybe more than that. :)

    TF claims that DF contacted a family member, but this is the first I've heard of DF targetting that actress. She's been sentenced to a year in jail and 90 lashes for her role in the movie, which ironically was about how hard it is to be an actress in Iran. :( I didn't know DF spoke out against her, but I guess I'm not surprised. He must think her punishment is a just one.

  8. Mark, Condell has often put links to them in his description areas. THOSE are what Coughlan has brought up in his vids. Coughlan didn't lie.

  9. Sacha, this was one of the few times that I have no argument against PZ. He simply helped out with the video.

    I completely agree, Nectar, I apologise if I made it seem I felt otherwise.

    I haven't had time to find the article about DawahFilms speaking about the Iranian actress, I have not forgotten.

  10. Sacha, don't worry about it. PZ's so often been on the wrong side of things lately, that it's only logical to assume from the start these days for that wrongness to be more likely than not with anything new he does. It's the things he gets right that makes the things he gets wrong even sadder. :)

  11. informed rational freedom loving people have all the reasons in the world to fear islam...

    the twin fogs of political correctness & ignorance must be dispersed before western society better understands this menace. even a brief review of islamic theology & history quickly exposes the deadly roots of this evil ideology.

    Mohamhead was a 7th century murdering warlord who rose to power on a river of blood surrounded by thugs and gangsters using intimidation, violence, deception and trickery to expand their criminal empire while mercilessly suppressing and killing their opponents and enriching themselves on stolen booty.

    The evil koran is a collection of sayings and speeches by this diabolical madman claiming divine guidance from some mythical sky-god which has inspired generations of crazed fanatics to abhorrent behavior resulting in historys worst ever crimes against humanity starting 1400 years ago and still continuing even today.

    Islam is just another fascist totalitarian ideology used by power hungry fanatics on yet another quest for worldwide domination and includes all the usual human rights abuses & suppression of freedoms.

    and a snappy graphics version, great for emailing...

  12. That would make a good jacket description for copies of the koran. :)